Saturday, September 14, 2013

Fishbowl #2: Chapters 11 and 12 of The Kite Runner

Welcome to your second fishbowl!

A few reminders if you're looking for an A for the day:

(A) Bring at least one quotation and/or page reference into at least one of your responses.
 
(B) Explain your thinking thoughtfully and thoroughly (try to avoid the one-sentence response).

(C) Keep it professional, including the usage of proper grammar and spelling.

(D) Comment frequently from the beginning of the conversation to the end.


Remember also that you're welcome to get into a hotseat in the inner circle for a little while and earn some of your daily participation points there.


Enjoy!

87 comments:

  1. On page 127 Baba ends up throwing a fit and makes a scene at a convenience store. Why do you think Baba has gone from a nice laid back person to someone that is so on edge? Does it have to do with moving to America?

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    1. I believe Baba's personality change is the result of moving to America because he feels as if he doesn't fit in having lived in Kabul throughout his life.

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    2. I think that because of discrimination is a HUGE part of this. Baba does not want to be seen as just an Afghan. I think his pride is telling him that he needs to be seen as equal.

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    3. I think that Baba went from being laid back to being so on edge because he feels like since he's in the minority and there aren't many people from where he is so he has to figure out a way to become more prominent person in America. Or it could be because of his cancer, just the strain that knowing that he has this problem it has made him more angry in a way.

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    4. Baba has always loved the idea of America, on page 125 Baba says, "There are only three real men in this world, Amir, America the brash savior.." It shows that he thought America was a good country. He broke out in the store because he wasn't adjusting to American life well. It wasn't how he lived back in Afghan. Baba also isn't wealthy as he was anymore which has an effect on him.

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    5. When Baba lived in Kabul, he was influential and he was envied for his wealth. His home was in Afghanistan, he felt empowered there. The combination of downgrading to middle/lower class life, as well as being forced to live in a completely alien enviroment where he is not equal because of culture differences, created a huge strain in his life, and made him sick.

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    6. The reason that baba ends up getting upset at the convince store is because he felt insulted when the shopkeeper asked for I.D. Back in Afghanistan the society revolved around trust. For example on pg.128 when the shopkeeper asks to see his I.D he believes that the shop keeper thought that he was some sort of thief. Pg. 128 "What kind of country is this? No one trusts anyone!"

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    7. Now that they are in America Baba has changed because the culture is so different it takes time getting use to. Baba has a strong personality and it doesn't fit into the new environment they are now living in. On page 127 when Baba gets upset about having to show his id, he makes it a big deal because he doesn't understand why people don't trust him. On page 128 Amir apologizes by saying "My father is still adjusting to life in America." The culture shock is effecting Baba a lot.

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  2. Has it been hard for Baba and Amir to leave a home of wealth to middle class America?

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    1. Definitely. Change from what your are used to is always hard. Everything you know and love is just gone, and you have to start over.

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    2. Yes it has, he has gone from being a man in the community that everyone knew and had a sense of who he was and then he went to America where no one knew who he was or what he had done in Afghanistan?

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    3. Of course because they were like uses to like getting things a not have to work hard for things they want. And the Middle class is a big transition for them because He has to work twice as hard for his things.

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    4. It's been very hard for Baba more so than for Amir, because of how different his job is, how he doesn't know much english, and how the customs are different. Like Amir says on page 129, "He missed people milling in and out of his house, missed walking down the bustling aisles of Shor Bazaar and greeting people who knew him and his father, knew his grandfather, people who shared ancestors with him, whose pasts intertwined with his". Baba misses being connected with people, and his old culture.

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  3. I think that Baba is going to die from the cancer that was just discovered. How do you think that will effect Amir? Do you think he will back to the dark attitude he had after Hassan?

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    1. I think that if Baba dies then Amir will be sick in the head worse then he is already. I also think that Amir will become money sick from inheriting all of Baba's money.

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    2. I think that Amir will not revert to the person he was in his youth. Honestly I think that at first Baba's death would be a shock, and painful for Amir. After that initial shock, however, I think that Amir will feel far more free, and less worried without the burden of his aging father.

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    3. Do you think that Amir secretly dislike his father even just the slightest bit?

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    4. I think that if Baba dies then Amir is going to go into shock for a little bit and maybe even revert to turning into the man that Baba was just to try and keep him alive in Amir's head.

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  4. Why does Baba love America so much? And why does Amir think that it was America that gave his father the ulcer?

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    1. I think Baba loves America so much because he is seeing his son graduate from high school and he is advancing on a girl that he likes and she likes him. On the other side Amir thinks Baba is getting sick because of America because of the stress it brings.

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  5. Why was Baba refusing to do radiation therapy? Is it anything to do with his wife?

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    1. I think he's refusing to do radiation because he's very prideful and stubborn and he doesn't want help from anyone. He already lost most of his pride by having to leave his old job and house, and he doesn't to lose anymore by getting more help.

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    2. This may have to do with his wife, to see her again. I also think Baba believes that Amir is ready to handle the responsibility, so he is not afraid to die.

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    3. I think he is just ready because on page 129 baba is talking about how being in america is good for amir but it is bad for baba. he just wants to leave america and be with all of the people that he knew back in afghan.on the begining on chapter 11 it said america is giving baba an ulcer..

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  6. Why do you think Baba has more care for Amir than at the beginning of the book?

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    1. I think that Baba realizes now that although Amir wasn't the best at sports, he still accomplished a lot. He graduated high school, he's in college, and he's a writer. Baba finally realizes that Amir accomplished a lot, just different than what Baba accomplished.

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    2. Throughout the events that have happened in the book, Amir has changed and same with Baba. Baba became closer with Amir by moving to America, having roadtrips with him, the flea market, etc. Also, with Baba's cancer, they will grow a closer bond because Amir and Baba know that Baba might die.

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    3. I believe the reason Baba has more care for Amir than at the beginning of the book is because he's watched Amir grow up and has developed respect for Amir having gone through the experiences together.

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  7. Why do you think that Baba won't do any kind of chemo treatment to help his cancer?

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    1. Baba probably does not want to take any treatment for his cancer like Chemo therapy or any of that because he like believes that they are no god no life change miracles and that when he dies he dies. Like he is suppose to die then and that he has lived his life the way he is suppose to. This maybe why Baba does not want any treatment.

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  8. Amir and Baba's relationship will change a lot now that Baba is sick I think that Amir will have to take care of Baba even though Baba has been the one who has always taken care of Amir. Now it is the other way around. Also Amir will have to adapt without his father and how he will live and who he can rely on.

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    1. I think this will strengthen the bond between them because, ya he will have to take care of baba. i think that amir will be fine without baba because ever scence they have been in america, amir has taking care of baba and keeping him in order.

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  9. Since Baba has a hard life and works at a gas station to earn money, how will Having cancer effect his life and Amir's? How will Amir continue to pay for college?

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    1. At this point in the book Amir is depending on Baba a lot; however now that Baba has cancer he will have to become more independent. On page 157 Baba says "You're twenty-two years old, Amir! A grown man!" This shows baba feels that Amir can support him self. Baba isn't worried about him. Life without Baba will effect Amir a lot, but Baba has raised Amir to be independent. Overall Amir will turn out fine.

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  10. I think Amir is going to go down hill. Amir has always strives for Babas affection so I think he will no longer feel like he has a purpose. Soroya might help with this though.

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  11. Is Amir happy to America? Is he happy to be away from where he grew up?

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    1. 'If for nothing else, for that, I will embrace America.' (page 136) Amir is embracing America and it is a fresh start and it is an exciting journey for Amir but he is not sure about it.

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    2. Amir seems to only like America because it was a place where he can forget the memories in Kabul.on page 129 Amir Says, "For me, America was a place to bury my memories." I think he misses where he grew up, but he is happy where he is because it is better for him. But he can't completely forget about Kabul, it still hurts him inside.

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  12. I think Baba has gone from and nice laid back person to someone on the edge because now he has to work harder to support Amir and take care of hm a provide for him the way he did back in Kabul. And yes I do think it has something to do living in America this is because back in Kabul Baba was one of the richer people and did not have to like work over time like he does in American. In America you can not buy things of credit and like they know you are trust worthy person credit like they were able to do in Kabul.

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  13. I think Baba being sick will bring Amir closer to him because Amir will have to help him out and Amir will start to realize what he has and how important they are to each other. Baba will be more forgiving and support Amir with him going to college and becoming a writer.

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  14. Baba definitely doesn't want to do radiation because he stands for himself and that he doesn't want people to see him weak or to see him in pain. Throughout the book Baba has been his own person and a very powerful one at that. Baba is still a powerful person and he doesn't want people to see him suffer.

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  15. Amir will definitely take care of Baba and be with him as much. Also, he'll have Soraya to help get him through it. As well as when Baba's health starts getting even worse, Amir will probably start to fear losing him and try his best to get him some help. I think that the fact that Soraya will marry him will help Amir get through this, although it will be hard. Finally, I agree with Jessa that Baba does want people to treat him like back in Afghanistan, especially since he is quite noble and maybe he doesn't even want people to know how vulnerable he is now.

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  16. Because Baba is sick, Amir will finally grown up and take on his adult responsibilities and he may go to Rahim or even Hassan and Ali do get help and giudence on what is right and what is wrong in the world.

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  17. Because Baba is sick, Amir will finally grown up and take on his adult responsibilities and he may go to Rahim or even Hassan and Ali do get help and giudence on what is right and what is wrong in the world.

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  18. I think as Amir is going through a time were his is learning to have unconditional love for his father because he is sick. Amir is learning to let go of the past and live in a current day. So if Amir really cares for Baba, why does he not push harder for Baba to get chemo.(pg. 156)

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  19. Since Baba has gotten sick Amir is going to lose all of his family and he will probably be devestated after his death. Baba's actions will change because since Baba knows he wont live long he will most likely take it easy on Amir and try to set him up for a better life when he is gone. On page 157 he says "What's going to happen to you, you say? All those years, that's what I was trying to teach you, how to never have to ask that question." showing that he cares and it is time for him to show it. This does raise the question, Was Baba fearful of what would happen after his wife passed away?

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  20. Are Amir and Baba closer or more distant because Hassan and Ali left? Why?

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    1. In a way yes because now Baba and Amir spend more time together and Baba does not really ask what about this person. and now Amir is totally there and Baba has to acknowledge him and that probably has helped their relationship.

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    2. I think they are, because they have to stick together through all the changes. They don't know that many people and they bond through the little things, like going garage sale hunting, or Amir liking Soraya. Baba has more time to pay attention to Amir.

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  21. 1. Why do you think Baba refuses to get Chemo [Radiation treatment for cancer], even though he knows it will be better for everyone around him? He knows that if he were to pass away, Amir and everyone else he knows would be really sad. Why does he refuse to get treatment?

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    1. I think Baba doesn't get chemotherapy because he is a very stubborn man and he wants to go out strong. Also I feel as if Baba is trying to teach Amir a lesson of being a grown man through this action of him refusing to get chemo.

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  22. I would like to know how did lung cancer give Baba a seizure? Is it just because of where the tumor is or is it because that's just some type of side affect from this cancer?

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  23. Amir and Baba's relationship will change now that Baba is sick because up until now Amir has listened and obeyed Baba, but I think there roles might switch. Furthermore, I disagree with what Amir said on pg. 157 when Amir thought, "Like the day I would become an orphan wasn't inching closer...". I disagree with this because if Baba's sickness gets worse and he does end up dyeing, Amir is 20 years old, that's not really an orphan. I get that Baba is the most important person in Amir's life right now, but eventually Baba will die and Amir will have to accept that and be able to move on.

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  24. In the fish bowl they just spoke about Baba's and Amir's relationship developing from them living in Afghanistan to them living in America. I believe that their relationship has really bloomed because Baba keeps showing his appreciation towards Amir through his actions. On page 129 Baba says that Baba and Amir went to America for Amir.

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  25. If Baba passes, Amir will be all alone now that he is in America and will finally grow up and now take on responsibilities as a man, he may go to Rahim, or even Hassan and Ali for help and guidence.

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  26. How has Baba and Amir's relationship changed and developed throughout this book? Is this change for the better or for the worse?

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    1. Towards the beginning of the book Baba and Amir's relationship was very distant and they weren't close at all, but as the story goes on Amir does get closer to Baba when he won the Kite flying competition. Then during the war and getting smuggled out they bonded more because they were all that each of them had. Also when they moved to America they had to stick together to stay healthy.

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    2. Their relationship has grown so much through out this book espicall with Baba becoming sick. I think this change is good because on how they act towards each other like on page 162 they have their first laugh.

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    3. At the beginning the relationship was cold and they never talked. Now they talk but, they are still not that safe. I think their relationship has changed for the better.

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  27. Baba seems to love the idea of America, but Baba has been used to be in power and be a very powerful person. When he gets to America he is starting at the bottom again. It would be very hard to change from luxury to middle class.

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    1. He envy's her so much because of the hard past of where she is today. He is proud that she is a good person after the relationship she came out of. I feel that Amir is also to be envied because he has been through a lot too.

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  29. When it comes to them living in America, Baba probably gained a discomfort in America when he realized that he was not used to the customs in the country. In the part of the book when he freaked out about the food in the station, Baba was berserk of the idea that even though they have been buying food there for years there is no trust involved.

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  30. I think that Amir will feel empty if/when his father passes away. Even though Amir and Baba seemed to have a distant relationship Baba was the only constant person in his life. Baba has always portrayed himself as a strong person. For example in chapter ten Baba puts himself in front of a man with a gun to protect another lady. With that being said I think that Amir will feel guilt for not doing anything to help Hassan. I also think this because Amir was always trying to make his dad proud and if his dad is gone he might feel that he let his dad down. He may think about how proud his dad would have been of him had he stood up or done something to help Hassan in the alley. But instead Amir stooped so low as to plant a robbery on Hassan. Which as you may recall Baba claimed the only sin to be stealing.

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  31. What was the average age to start college? Is it still the same today? Amir was twenty years old when he graduated high school and is attending Junior College where he will take Junior classes in his first year. 'I graduated from high school at the age of twenty, by far the oldest senior tossing his mortarboard on the football field that day.' 9page 131)

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  32. Do you think that Amir will ever be able to fully get over what happened with Hassan?
    Because he keeps like flash backing to things in his childhood having to do with Hassan.

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    1. Amir will never forget what will happened in that alley. He will get better but never fully recover from the hirrible event.

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  33. I think Amir is trying to start over because what he did and did not do makes him feel so guilty and to him that was Kabul and this is America no one knows what happened what he did. So to Amir this is a fresh start.

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  34. Baba does't want people to see him week and sick, because he may fail in the eyes of the public and he has never failed in Afghanistan and if he does fail then he will have a new image; that is in his own eyes, but in the eyes of the public they ill see a sick human and morn for him because he is sick and yet he is still trying to accomplish something.

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  35. On page 129, I feel like Amir wants a fresh start but then the the events that have happened in his life, isn't erasable. He cant just forget it. I feel like Amir almost could feel alone in America. How will Amir adapt to the life without Baba?

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  36. America is a place for Baba to mourn because America even though it is a great place to be just isn't his home where he has gained comfort. The place that they were living in represented nothing in Kabul and therefore there was too much change to handle at once.

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  37. The inner circle just made an interesting point, I believe it was Annika who mentioned the idea that maybe Amir would try to seek out Hassan and Ali. Does anybody else think this is a possibility? The first page mentions that Rahim Khan asked Amir to come see him, do you think he will? Will he ever leave America?

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  38. Will Soraya and Amir's relationship be at any way related to his and Baba's relationship? Or will what happened with Hassan affect his actions towards him?

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  39. There is definitely some irony in this chapter. When Amir drives by some houses that he says "made babas look like a servants house. In Afghanistan Baba was well respected and wealthy. In America they live in an apartment and he is a servant of sorts.

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    1. Yeah there is and I think that is a very tough transition for Baba because now he is fighting even more for a living and it is taking a toll on his body.

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  40. Why did Soraya's father throw away Amir's writings?

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  41. On Page 129 Amir thinks, "For me, America was a place to bury my memories. For Baba, a place to mourn his." This quote means that Amir likes America because he had a bad past and wants to forget it, while Baba doesn't like America as much because he had a great past and he wants it back. This makes me realize that their roles have sort of switched because in the beginning Amir was trying to impress Baba and do anything that makes him happy, and now Baba is trying to make Amir happy, by giving him things such as the car and the gift to college. This raises the question, which way of life was better for the two of them, America or Afghanistan?

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  42. I think Amir and Soraya seem to be good now but I just wondered if it will go anywhere or if she will leave him like other mothers have previously in the book.

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  43. Why does her past bother Amir when his isn't much better at all?

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  44. Amir sees America as a clean slate. A new beggining, and will do anything he can do keep this image of goo doings to make Baba happy.

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  45. Why did Amir not share his life with Soraya ? was he not comfortable ?

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  46. If Amir does go to college, that would take away his time from Baba, giving him less time to take care of him or simply spend the time he has left with his father. Also, if Amir does go to college, he'll probably end up regretting it because of the time it would take from him and Baba. Another thing, maybe Soraya will be able to take care of Baba while Amir was at college. Or maybe Amir will have Baba put in a hospital. Finally, I think Baba will probably end up not being able to take in cancer much longer.

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  47. Do you believe that all the years when Amir's father was shutting himself out of his life, he was trying to teach Amir independence? Do you believe that this was effective. Sacrificing their relationship when Amir was younger to prepare him for his future?

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  48. I think its interesting what Baba said about the men of the world. "there are only three real men in this world, Amir. America the brash savior, Britain, and Israel. The rest of them, they're like gossiping old woman." I wonder how Baba developed this thinking. if he thinks of this metaphorically as in these three country's are the only ones who matter. Or if he infact meant it at a literal standpoint implying in away that the people in the country's are literally superior to others of the world.

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  49. On page 154 Amir is worried about his father so he starts to pray, " Bowing my head to the ground, I recited half-forgotten verses from the Koran." Amir also says he was praying to a God he wasn't even sure existed. I wonder if the spot in Baba's lung is changing who Amir is and if Amir will change for the better. Does cancer change people into believing in a God just so they have a little hope that things will get better?

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  50. While reading this chapter, I could see that Amir and Baba had 2 completely different perspectives about America. On Page 129, it states in Amir's point of view, "For me, America was a place to bury my memories. For Baba, a place to mourn his." Amir took it as a way of starting new and clean. Baba on the other hand feels very disconnected because he is in a new environment with completely different people. One of the important scenes is when the manager of the bakery asks Baba for his licence, Baba was taken aback because he looked at it as a form of distrust. I think this shows that Baba hasn't fully adjusted to the American life. I guess Baba was not used to having to be a "sevant" because back in Afghan, he was living the high life. Although Amir is also disconnected form his past, he took this opportunity in a great way to forget about Hassan and the rape.

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  51. Baba's attempts to keep providing for Amir is admirable, but the frustration with living in a lifestyle that he is unaccustomed to is part of what made him sick. This frustration is shown when Baba goes berserk at the convenience store on page 127. He cannot show weakness, not in the form of learning English, and not in the form of getting treatment for his cancer. After being the big man in Kabul and then losing it all, he clings blindly to Afghani tradition. Baba's traveling to General Sahib's home to ask for a marriage even though he was dying, clearly displays this desperation; on pages 161-163.

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